Major Question: Reboot?
This isn’t a decision I take lightly, but I am really starting to think this would be for the best. The old comics will still exist, though I am unsure of the logistics of all this.
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UPDATE
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So after reading the comments I’ve come to a conclusion that the current incarnation of Suppression needs a conclusion.
So with that in mind, this reboot plan now includes this version of Suppression continuing for a while and the Old Wights still being introduced and confronted. I’ll abandon the story arcs I had planned for after that, and reset the world to version 2.0… how does THAT plan sound?
Continue commenting, taking this new info into account. This has been extremely helpful feedback.
I’d hang around- you got us this far.
You know me. I’m all for whatever as long as it results in a good story.
The danger of doing a reboot is that you may end up feeling like you’re not accomplishing anything. You’re saying “God, I wish I had done this, this and this five years ago when I had started” now, but you didn’t and the story still worked out reasonable okay. If you reboot the series, how many months of rehashing and rewritten posts is going to take to get to the Wight War again?
To offer comparative data points, there’s Galaxion which started as a print comic, and then rebooted and rewritten as a web comic and there were parts where the author must have felt like it was going to be ages to get to the new material she had written. Or “A Girl and Her Fed” where somewhere around page 400 the author decided to go back and start redoing the start of the strip in her spare time (about 97 pages redone, so far) while continuing the regular plot. Or similar situation with Trying Human, where the forward arc of the plot is currently in volume five, and art revisions front is still in volume two.
The Batman story arc never gets anywhere, because each time Batman accomplishes something, they say “Hey, storyline accomplished. Reset all of the pieces, and let’s try something else.” Do you really want to repeat the story (with various various changes) instead of moving forward?
Can you accomplish the changes to the story line and everything else by going back through and revising the story so far instead of “rebooting” it?
I mean, look at the Martian movie. When the author was writing that, he wrote it a serialized form and occasionally he had to go back revise previous chapters because he wrote himself into a dead end or discovered something that the story should have established way earlier; or just discovered a technical error in a previous chapter.
What I’m try to write out is that you shouldn’t feel bad about discovering that you’ve been writing a serialized story, and you really want to go through and revise the previous chapters that you’ve written. But I will stick my tongue out at you if you call it a “reboot”, because that’s what comics and movies do when they get to the end of their plotline and refuse to go off and find something new/better to do. 😛
To accomplish what I want, I would need a completely new continuity…
Simply revising the old pages wouldn’t really change much. This isn’t about plot holes or bad art, this is about the world as it stands and the people inside of it.
I have no intention of doing a rehash, though.
That’s what I mean by shuffling the deck.
The new version of the story would likely have Arrie, Victus and Trevor’s visit to the town take place the same time as the start of the plague. And have the story fan out from there. Which pretty much obliterates any chance of things playing out the same way.
I would end up losing alot of my plot twists and reveals… I don’t think Iggy being Grenner’s son would have much of an impact a second time around. And I guess this is the one thing I worry about losing… but I can have new twists to make up for it I’m sure.
Hopefully this reply doesn’t get lost in the reply forest…
‘Oh, no, the people who read the story before I realized I needed to rewrite it aren’t going to be surprised by the original plot twists’ is a terrible reason for changing the original plot details. You wrote a long form serialized story, the people who read it the first time you can treat as your test audience. The plot twists that surprised your test audience are going to surprise the new audience when they get there.
I’m completely supportive of you for when you choose between your various options of:
1. Do a complete rewrite and revision of the current story, going through and changing any number of the current pages or throwing any number of them out.
2. Start over from page one with a completely new story line.
3. Start over from page one with the same basic story line but different details.
Hell, I’m old enough to have seen and paid for several versions of Tenchi “Infinite Character Recycling” Muyo, including Tenchi in Tokyo. But if you pull an Evangelion 3.0 and do a bizarre series finale and two move remakes, you’re going to get so many sarcastic comments. :p
To be clear, my concern about the straight rehash was more a matter of trying to emphasize with the persons who have written a 500+ page web comic, finally got to part two of the story, and now are talking about starting over again. _I_ would hate to be in the situation of retelling the story like that, and I know as writer I would just go straight off into a different plot line and story.
_As a reader of a web comic_, it’s all good with me. I don’t mind asking, “What’s Ryoga supposed to be doing in the show this time?” 🙂
I’ve been on this train since Eric has been introduced, and pretty consistently. I have an alarm programmed on two devices for the exact moment that Suppression gets put up on the site. I’ll tell you that even before I started working on adapting the elves over to the story, a lot of stuff was pretty much made up on the spot and explained away rather loosely or not even explained… or worse, explained by us directly.
We just keep a lot of information to ourselves. Even if we discuss it among ourselves what the issues were, there isn’t an easy way to fix it without changing the structure of how it’s built up in the first place. We’re currently stuck in something that’s been put together with a staple gun and duct tape with a foundation of really detailed lore and mechanics that isn’t being put to good use. You get more story and lore out of our comments than in the comic itself, and that’s a huge problem.
Not a lot of things are made to the benefit of the reader and recreating the world to benefit people that aren’t in the loop would probably help a lot more. Of course there are a lot of things that will be walked over again, but the writing would probably be tighter, the mechanics of the environment would be clearer and we probably won’t be scrambling to fill in space to make a deadline (I’ve gotten caught by crunch time where my writing is compromised by how shoddy the presentation is and I always feel guilty about it).
If you’re worried about a straight rehash, I assure you that so far it’s looking way different… especially since it looks like some characters might be getting shuffled around to factions that might fit them better.
That being said, it’s really just a list of ideas that may or may not be going into something we may or may not be doing depending on how the reception is. So far the reception has been 50/50.
…But the list looks really fun.
Hrrrm…
You make some good points-not talking about X is important because of Y because everyone here knows it made for some awkward moments come time to drop the exposition.
That said…
I think in the end what does it isn’t so much mechanical issues, it’s perhaps not understanding why character A does X. Like, that Blood Red rebellion sounds like an awesome story on it’s own, but because the story kinda got set ‘right before everything explodes’ it becomes awkward to go back there without a good reason, especially given the time lost to exposition debt…
One thing I must ask: This…Reboot, seeing as it retreads what’s been done, and given the ah, reusable nature of Degal’s art program, it should be simply an excercise in re-writing with a reasonable investment in the re-made and new scenes-no more having to do the filler stall while you guys scramble to set up the next scene, at least for some time, right?
The reboot as I have it planned now would need a new version of Ebon Creek. The future of the comic in it’s current version would need a much more complex and nightmarish to create version of Ebon Creek on top of tons of Thal’nasia locations… so I can say that the reboot would need less prep time over all but still some.
I should be able to get significant mileage out of what I have already in a reboot, while I can get next to no mileage out of what I have moving forward since the next story arc is set in winter on top of everything else… requiring new clothes and for the characters and a snow covered redesign for the outdoor scenes.
Nyet. Finish this tale, flaws and all, but take note of where the flaws are-if you wanna do a re-make, you can, but you’ll have worked out ALL the kinks instead of simply running into new ones along the way.
Besides, you seem like you’d run straight into brand new issues-like okay you made Jericho a meaningful threat instead of ‘oh Trevor loses his sword now.’ Or maybe ‘Maxwell isn’t an absolute idiot’ but now he’s killed off half of the heroes with his newfound braininess.
I suspect that for your past success with that tournament story with Trevor and Seige, It probably was VERY helpful to have the other contestants as well as the whole theme of the story to deal with to tie you down, but you’ve given off signs of tending to jump even your own rails when you’re solo.
I fully admit that this situation has arisen from my own bad habits. My ideas weren’t fully formed at the start and and decided to make my comic anyway. And I’m sure that not every idea and plot thread i make from this day forward will mesh seamlessly into what comes before it.
But I will say I’ve got more in mind than just buffing and nerfing characters that need it. I want to create a more solid world.
This is less and 24 hours of brainstorming but picture if you will that after the Blood Red Rebellion Thal’nasia actually was reduced to a state where it couldn’t remain isolated from the world.
What if Ebon Creek was a notable and special place and it’s destruction was something to be mourned? Such as a town where Humans and Elves have been living side by side for a few years.
Of course if Ebon Creek were to be a place of significance to the elves, they would be looking into what happened nearly instantly… and the War would break out pretty early into the story.
I’m fine either way honestly. I love trying to figure out all the mysteries the story has, and I’m fine with how everything is now, but I’m just as fine reading a reboot and seeing where you take it.
This is my favorite webcomic, and I’m basically stuck here either way. ^_^
Hmm. To be honest, I’m pretty fond of the whole “Collapsing masquerade” you got going here. Elves being open……….just, not sure what kind of world that’d be.
You set up some mysteries that couldn’t exist without this, and dealing with the reveal as it happens would probably make for a more interesting story than say, dealing with it as exposition.
Of course, I’m nobody, do what you will, just know that You’ve done 5 years of this, are you really willing to throw this all away? Personally I’ve grown quite fond of this odd band of various disorderly clowns and mimes, esp cerene (Best char ever)
And honestly, you owe us one strip of antics after all that setup about how hillarious the bad doc meeting the good doc would be.
I’ll take that feedback to heart. Preserving the masquerade’s collapse as a part of the story is an option.
This idea is pretty fresh and new. So take anything I say with a grain of salt as I’m only stating a single option I’m contemplating.
My thought is that the while the elves’ isolation may have ended after the blood red rebellion, they also didn’t enter the outside world openly. This would put the adoption of pop culture imports and the magitech boom as being a recent development. Elves secretly among humans could be a thing, creating a deeper masquerade to be destroyed.
I’m also considering evidence of the original Wight War, and the Thal’nasians to be part of the world at large… kinda like the various gem ruins from Steven Universe. Some things are just too big and tedious to erase.
Things like that just make the story so much more solid and cohesive. Maybe I’m sweating the small stuff on that… I have bigger plans that have bigger impacts, though.
But I’m not making this call lightly. I’m very excited about the idea, and everyone I’ve talked to directly about it has agreed with me (though some took more convincing) despite me being pretty willing to be talked down from this ledge. I admit that being excited about this, and flipping the switch are two separate things and I’m scared to actually do it… But kinda like Undertale, the first time through will be remembered, even if I start over. (btw, Undertale is quite a good game)
Also I’ll take note of the request to see this scene through. That might be a nice thing to do to tide people over while I sort this out. I’ve been antsy all day from not working on a page on page day…
Well, if you’re sure.
Just a suggestion though, make it so the Elves use Shell Companies and “Face men” With their ears rounded, lowers suspicions that way.
Only problem with that is well, unless the elves are fronting in north america and the wights/santris in europe, or vice-versa, they’ll run into eachother by accident.
Addenum: If possible, can you release a cheat-sheet of the current planned storyline? It’s not quite closure but it’s close.
So I will be perfectly honest, I would hate to see a reboot. I would still read it but…well to be perfectly honest it has taken a long time for us to get to the point where things are starting to heat up. The story I fell in love with and check every week is this one that is currently running. Flaws and all its the world you presented here that I enjoy checking in.
I worry that a reboot means waiting a long time for the ball to get rolling again. Unlike Batman who is pretty static despite a reboot these characters could turn out utterly different and completely alien to long time viewers, and there is no real guarantee that a reboot will bring in new people.
Basically if you do I will still be here, but I will hate to see the characters I have been following for maybe two years now to be reset to zero and changed completely with no real end to the tale. And I kind of worry that if it reboots and moves at the same pace the story might never get an end, or worse worry that you will decide in the future that the reboot needs a reboot.
personally reboots make me nervous. mostly because of emergency exit and what happened with that comic. also i get invested in the way things are and don’t like it when they are changed. I was very annoying to watch the first harry potter movie with, i felt compelled to point out every thing ‘wrong’.
it can be a good thing, i do like the way a girl and her fed looks with its reboot, but i didn’t like how one of the storylines in True Villians changed completely
Finally get to the end of the archives after not reading for a few years (I last read alllll the way back when Azgrut was introed. XD), and the first new update since catching up… is this. Ah, well.
I’d like to see how this story turns out, buuuut honestly, I’d like to see a reboot as well. I’ve tried to show this comic to my friends, and many of them were turned off by the writing initially, and how confusing it can get, and how you need to read the fluff material (ie. the comments, the TV Trope page, the forum, etc.) to get a whole understanding of it. A reboot of Suppression with tighter writing and plot planning, plus the same old characters we love? I’d read it. c: Juuuuust so long as we don’t decide down the road that the reboot needs a reboot. Make this one count, yanno?
My gut reaction to a reboot is… Well, Lordxana covered it pretty well. I don’t want to see all the events and progress we’ve seen thus far suddenly undone, never to be resolved. I think it’d sting more than a little bit.
Still, I’d be lying if I said I couldn’t empathize with wanting to restart a project/story to do it over better, and I don’t think anyone should be asked to work on a project that they don’t want to. (Well, at least not one that they do for fun/internet attention. If you’re being paid to do stuff, that’s another matter.)
Yeah, I think I’d be disappointed to see a reboot. But hey, reading Suppression is a habit by this point. I don’t see myself stopping anytime soon. And also, I am pretty intrigued by some of the plot changes you’ve mentioned so far…
Ooooh, I like that revised idea. Finishing this current arc and giving the series some sort of closure is DEFINITELY a good idea. And goodness knows I’d stick around for the reboot!
I will admit though; one thing I liked about this series was that most of the characters already knew each other in advance when the series began, so we could just jump right in instead of the whole “my name is…” and getting to know each other, which I always felt was an awkward way to introduce characters. XD Would the characters already know each other in the reboot, or would it be like in this series, where they only meet each other for the first time AFTER the plague hits?
Too early to get much into who will know who, but I’ll try to keep it that many people have met. I don’t think any of the characters will be complete islands with no knowledge of other characters… that’s tedious.
I like this idea. Honestly a little completion would be fine, that way even if you don’t finish the next tale this one at least will have some form of ending. It also provides closure to long term fans and can tide people over for a long time to come.
webcomics I read that do reboots tend to die and the author cites burnout from rehashing…or course so do the ones who mention but decide not to do a reboot and then mention feeling trapped in a storyline they don’t feel anymore….
so yeah, neutral from me. do what you feel like.
i like the “this version at least gets a conclusion” thing since like lordxana said that works out either way at least a little
I’m kinda entering into this blind. I’ve never personally seen this done before… And the examples all of you have mentioned to here don’t sound like they handled it remotely similar to how I plan to.
This is something I’m really excited about. This won’t be some simple rewrite of what we’ve done before with minor details changed. This is big. Very big. I’m really glad I decided to write an ending because it gives me time to get everything ready.
I guess the only ground I’m dreading covering twice is exposition about how the world works. Just feels like it’ll be dull for me and for long term fans… but then again it was delivered in strange ways and far too late so while it’s annoying to deal with, it’s not like I can’t do a better job of it.
I think anonymous’s comment is what I was trying to say before: the really big danger of rehash burnout in a webcomic.
If you can put an ending on the current version, then even if you run off and end up writing Suppression 3.0: Suppression in Tokyo where all of the characters are high school students studying magic and giant robot fighting, you can point to the first series ending and say “I wrote a webcomic and _finished_ it, and now I’m writing a better one because all of that practice made me a better writer/author/web comic person.” 🙂
It might not be the best ending but it’ll be an ending. After some thinking, and I haven’t really mentioned this before, I’m scared that there might actually be a reason for this ending and even entire universe to exist: there is an in-universe time mage. It’s a legit detail that’s there. Even if he is devised as a gag character, that doesn’t excuse that he exists. I know it seems like an easy out, but the way he was originally constructed as a plot device makes him an easy out for when things go awry.
And no. Seriously. I haven’t mentioned this to anyone. This just occurred to me just now. Oh no! I’ve gone too far down the rabbit hole! I’m remembering incidental details like this! Save me! AHHH!
the frog guy that hates pasta right?
I’m not anonymous I’m
I’d trust you to do a reboot correctly. With enough variation in the setting and characters to make it worthwhile to read.
Your worldbuilding is amazing, if a little verbose at times, and a fresh start would be interesting and also let me bug my friends to read it.
I’m sorry I’m so late to this but i got back from being out of country for almost a year and saw this, but as someone who’s been here for several years ( like some others in here) we’ll keep reading purely for your style and story we love this. i don’t think theres much you can do to get rid of us at this point. ^.^ keep being awesome!